This week, Justin Eggar, CEO of Quantum Assurance International, joins the show to talk about risk and failure. Justin brings his perspective to taking risks and talks about how managers can benefit by getting comfortable with failure.
Jason Davis 0:10
Welcome to Lead Smarter Not Harder your spot for how to stand out as a leader. I'm your host, Jason Davis. And this week, I'm joined by Justin Eggar, CEO of Quantum Assurance International, as we talk about shifting your mindset to embrace failure, and how managers can learn from taking more risks. Let's go.
Alright, well wanted to get together today and really take a deeper dive into getting comfortable with risk and failure. The topic that is something I've been digging a little bit more into myself, personally, it's something that was always challenging for myself, even in a corporate world anyway, so one of the bring in some expertise and expand on this topic a little bit. So today, I'm joined by Justin Eggar, who is the CEO of Quantum Assurance International. Just to give a little bit of background, Justin spent several years in the Navy, serving in Iceland, Italy, and had various leadership roles throughout that time. He was also the previous CEO of AIG, our Insurance Services, as well as Lyon talent solutions. And most recently, as I mentioned, in 2019, the CEO of Quantum Assurance International. Justin, welcome to the show.
Justin Eggar 1:30
Thanks for having me.
Jason Davis 1:32
Yeah, no problem. So what did I miss in your background?
Justin Eggar 1:37
Well, you know, life is not linear. And so, you know, it's, there's a lot of interesting moving parts there like we all have in life. But I think that you've covered a good portion of it, you know, obviously, like my social media and speaking to your podcast, but it doesn't say is it has probably my ups and UPS more than my downs on there. And we'll certainly get into that. That's great. Appreciate, you adding that in so you know, a few weeks ago, I approached you about it getting together to talk about this topic. So it tells us a little bit why did you agree to talk to me about this? What what what, why are you passionate about it? What are you what are you so open to talking about getting comfortable with risk and failure and things like that, you know, I am passionate about it. Because for one, I've experienced a lot of it.
You know, in my lifetime and most of us have, you know, most of us don't live a Pollyanna existence. But I care about humans, and I don't mean that I'm not a beauty pageant here. I mean that in as much as I everybody around us as a human being and so if we can create some value if we can, you know, try and help somebody else if we can help them understand that the failure that they might be experiencing right now is a is just a blip on the radar and, and something that they can grow through and be better for, then then, you know, I certainly am thrilled to be a part of that, which is why, you know, I want to jump on this, maybe share some of my own, you know, experiences and also encourage people to, to not look at risk and failure as a wall or as a one-dimensional thing, but, but viewed as having multiple facets to it.
Jason Davis 3:22
Yeah, and I love how you really started with being a human right? And you know, just really, you know, everybody is human and everybody makes mistakes, nobody's perfect. And you know, really showing that care for being able to make a mistake and learn from it, I think is what's really important. You know, hopefully, you're not making those same mistakes over and over again. It might take us a couple of rounds to finally figure it out. Right, but each time where we're learning from it a little bit, but I think it's starting with that perception that it's human, right, it's human to make mistakes. That's great. That's great.
Justin Eggar 3:58
Yeah, you know, and Jason is part of my own you know, this is college Genesis. When I left the corporate world, you know, back in, in 20, the end of 2010 because I was starting my own business. I had no idea what I was doing. I was so underprepared equipped All I knew is I had this dream of doing something and but really I didn't have a lot of the things that I probably should have had you know going into that thing what I did is have his grit and determination and you know, the desire to never give up on things in life and so you know, part of the reason this is so is something near and dear to me is that in those early years and you know certainly today you know, I experienced failure in those early years I failed nonstop and I don't mean my business as you know, it was constantly going out of business What I mean is, I did things wrong constantly I did the wrong thing. I focused on the wrong thing. I just everything that could break I learned everything the hard way. You know, and so you know, and that's and that's okay. I mean, that was my journey, and And I'm certainly better today because I had to learn the lessons the hard way. But you know, I think that you know, and, you know, you joked about it a little bit, in kind of our messages going back and forth. We all have a laundry list of failures in our lives that are things that have happened around us but don't define us. And if we can learn from those things, then then you know, we had the chance of creating something pretty incredible, out of what occurred in those instances,
Jason Davis 5:29
Yeah, no, I love that. And thanks for adding that in. I really appreciate that. So let's dive in a little bit deeper here and talk about, really, why this is important, why, and for me, even why I wanted to have a conversation about this kind of coming into it, really thinking about, you know, failure and taking risks as a necessary way to solve problems, to move forward to try different solutions, really thinking about it from an innovation standpoint as well. You know, so in, like I said, identifying problems, solving those, and moving that forward in a way that allows the business to grow. So let's talk a little bit more about some of your own experience with failure in taking risks, is there a particular story or event, that that kind of stands out to you?
Justin Eggar 6:22
Yeah, you know, and I, not all failures are total events, you know what I mean? And so I'll, I'll give you an example of the first year that I started my business I was working with an organization and in 2011, and the organization has set goals for us now as a contractor, but the organization set goals for us to achieve awards and a bunch of different stuff along those lines. And so I built out a business plan to hit their goals. And you know, and so it was an insurance agency. And that first year I wrote 400 renters policies because our goals were trying to provide a lot of renters and toys and that kind of stuff. We called it emerging business. So but what happened then is the next year the goals changed and the goals then became you know, how how much bundling Do you have and if you're, you know, listeners are not insurance they might not care to think or you know, understand this segment. But anyway, the goals change completely and flipped to 100% opposite direction, because writing renter's insurance, it doesn't at all align with bundling and that kind of stuff. And so I found myself in a place where the goals that made me successful that year, were that were my undoing the next year and then hitting you know, kind of my metrics and numbers and, you know, so so there are obviously smaller and larger failures in that in that life. What I learned along the way is that the business that I'd written wasn't, wasn't what was best actually, for the business that I had. It didn't give me the highest profitability didn't help me put food on the table for employees can do any of those things, but it hit somebody else's goals. And so, you know, along the way, I realized that, that it's okay to listen to others, and it's okay for others to have goals, but we can't let others’ goals define who we are. And people's goals for us shouldn't define, you know, the large scale, you know, things that we're trying to accomplish in life, we have to have those own things that that are near and dear to us internally and help us accomplish our master plan of you know, what, what success is, and, and what that looks like. And so, so that was an area you know, I laughed about that, you know, speaking with the industry in insurance, I laugh about that, that switch, and you know, and, but it was a great, it was a really pivotal learning moment for me that I had to stop placing so much weight, and what others want for me and I have to make sure that my standards and my goals align with who I want to be and where I want to go in life. Yeah,
Jason Davis 8:52
I love that. And, you know, even the story that you told, right, you know, one-year goals or this next year or something, you know, it was this and it's that it’s probably going back more to kind of climbing a ladder from a leadership standpoint, but it's the whole the old adage of, you know, what, got you here won't get you there, right? It's always like, Alright, now you hit that, what's the next level up, right, you've got to do something that's a little bit more significant and different to get there. This just seemed like a little bit unplanned from your perspective. or unexpected, probably a better way to unexpected is probably a better way to look at it. So so for you in that moment and kind of thinking, you know, getting to that point of saying, oh, okay, you know, I've got to do something different what was that aha moment and kind of how did you work past that just internally because it's that takes a lot for a person on their own right to admit a mistake and then move forward. So how did you do that? What was that process
Justin Eggar 9:48
like? You know, I wish it was some sophisticated, beautiful process, in reality, you know, like, like most of our lives, it was not that thing. You know, it was trying to figure out You know, my cheese got moved, you know, how do I figure out how to navigate that thing? And then part of it was okay, well, I certainly won't accomplish his goals, because there are things tied to that thing. But also, you know, I try and sit back and say, Okay, well, this is the tactical thing that I have to do, this is this thing I need to do to be successful. But also, you know, what is the larger picture life lesson that I can learn from this thing and everything that we have, that we're doing, you know, we can apply it personally. And professionally, you know, to what we're doing. And so these life lessons, and, you know, if you're a manager, and you're working on something, if you're learning something new, you're going to have the opportunity to learn things that help you grow professionally, a lot of that stuff has a direct correlation back to your home life and your personal life, and things that you can be doing better across the board. And so that was, that was really what this was, is that I, I figured it out professionally, I figured out how to navigate I forgot to wish to win in that area. But then I also had that aha moment of, Oh, you know what, this isn't just about the workplace, this is also about me and who I am.
Jason Davis 11:04
I like that a lot. And I think it speaks a little bit to it, not making it more, not making it harder and more complicated than what it really seems right. And I think the way that you're able to say, okay, you know, I mean, whether professionally or personally, you know, these are I can kind of work through things in some of the same ways. You know, and it works the other way as well, you know, I mean, there are things that I do in my personal life that I've found have, you know, been very beneficial from a professional standpoint, I do a lot of, you know, a lot of data gathering and stuff in Excel for my own personal reasons, you know, outside of I gather a lot of sports data, we'll just keep that as is. But I've been able to do a lot of things from you know, just a probability standpoint and trying to predict different outcomes and stuff like that from learning things on the personal side and turning that into a work product as well. So
Justin Eggar 11:58
I'm curious, there's an offline conversation that has to be had of how you've applied that in your personal life. And yeah, how many times have I failed and asked my spouse's thing? You know, I I occupy learned some lessons from you on that one.
Jason Davis 12:11
Yeah. Yeah, we can get into that for sure. That's for sure. Alright, so let's get into a little bit about managers and failure, you know, a really big topic for me anyway, and really the audience that I'm looking to support here so how can we start talking about managers and failure and getting comfortable with that? What what are you seeing, you know, that that kind of really standing in front of people there and what's working?
Justin Eggar 12:39
Yeah, I think one of the first things we have to ask ourselves is can we afford to not fail? Right? as an organization as people can we afford to not fail? And because what does that mean? If we don't fail, you know, and I’m right fairly frequently, I have a reasonable chance of success. But sometimes that's also because I'm risk-averse, right? I manage my risk very heavily these days and and and but that means that we're not innovating it means that we're not changing, you know, and so, you know, you and I have experience in the insurance world look at all these organizations that manage their risks so tightly, and it just became purely about that thing, and how do you squeeze that one or two or 3% profitability and like, this thing is completely on rails, and now look at the hundreds of insurer Tech's that have started up right look at all these groups that have started up because they've said, you know, what, there's a business model that exists in that risk. And, and the organizations that don't have the the grit to figure that out, we're going to do that thing, and we're going to change the insurance space. You know, so I think we have to be the first reason that we have to be okay with it is that the alternative to failure is is no growth not risking anything, and stagnant life, personally and professionally. So I think, you know, we have to, we all need to start working on being okay with risk now, you know, to go back to the human element, I'm more okay with it than most people just because I, I understand, you know, I spent a fair amount of time thinking about the human condition and the fact that we are all imperfect, in our own way. You know, and, and, and as such, if we really care about humans, we understand that we're all imperfect, we also need to give people the space to grow. That's the space to have a failure, the space to break things. And so it's the right thing because it's going to you know, the correct the first point, it's the right thing, because it is the thing that's going to change the world, it's going to give you a competitive advantage when you're willing to grow in other people wounds. But as human beings, it's also the right thing, because because we need to be tolerant of each other and help each other grow and be supportive of each other and know that that for others and ourselves to grow, that there's going to be things that break along the way You know so when, as an organization we break things a lot you know we have grown dramatically no we're a startup anybody that that's ever been in a startup environment if you are unwilling to break things and startup environment it's the wrong space for you it's going to be a lot of stress and little reward and so some of your listeners that that are in that space are probably chuckling right now because it is it is interesting you don't i mean but i think that you know from a role model perspective if we look at people that that break things I mean look at look at Elan musk right and obviously he's the go to for the planet for Cooper you know innovative things but looking at how many rockets actually crashed you know I mean we're we're all watching that and I love space and I love you know what they're doing but but look at how many failures they actually had catastrophic failures just on the on the border of bankruptcy they failed so many times and then they got it right you know what I mean and so you know, when when we're looking at our own growth and we're looking at what our managers are doing, Elon Musk was willing to crash a rockets into the ground multiple times and into a barge I guess, to try and get it right and so you know, give yourself enough room to crash and burn a little bit you know, give give your team members enough room to crash and burn a little bit because I one of those flights, every coffin is the fourth or fifth or six or whatever whichever one it was, at some point time you're gonna stick that landing and something incredible is gonna occur out of that thing and you know so that's, that's kind of like the the mantra we have is that we're going to break things I don't I'm not afraid of you breaking things I want you to go break things but what I do want you to do is know that we're breaking things along the way and make sure people are informed and so you're not breaking things you know that that nobody knows about. So for me, it's a bigger thing of please raise the flag that things are breaking and let us know and don't hide it you know what I mean? And if you're in a workplace where you can't break things, then you have to hide it and a lot of middle managers and a lot of entry-level managers hide their failures they hide their breakpoints because they're thinking through what about my career? What's this mean for my bonus What's this mean for all these different things and that's a culture that isn't conducive to you know, kind of exponential growth and things that we have to you know, accomplish as we try and change and that kind of stuff so yeah,
Jason Davis 17:24
yeah, I like that a lot. Right? That that just openness to break things and I think, you know, it sounds like that you create a great message from the top around Hey, this is we're gonna break some things it's gonna be okay, we'll fix them. Hopefully, you know, as we're kind of working through this you know, not everybody has that kind of luxury, right? where maybe people are open to risk and failure and breaking things but they're not saying it that's that happens and then somewhere there is no patience for that, right? It's, it's perfect all the time. So I think a lot of that messaging comes from the top and it's important to continue to say that over and over and over again so that everybody knows that Okay, we're gonna make mistakes around here and we don't have to be perfect. And then it's the where do you learn where do you move past that and how do you grow as the organization?
Justin Eggar 18:14
Yeah, I think I think Jason a lot of is built on humility and I'm not saying that I'm this incredible person I think that I'm sure not but you know, I am human I break things I fail and so you know from a leadership team at a quantum we break things we own it you know, and sometimes we make mistakes and we bring in a new marketing source and it throws things off or you know, and what we do is we say whoops you know, so sorry for doing that we know we kind of apologize if people have been negatively impacted we try and go back and learn from the lesson that we have but you know, we don't exist in an environment where we have to be perfect ourselves. And I think that you know, us making this environment one where we can apologize we can have humility, we can you know, we can say we're sorry that we're human too sometimes and, and these things happen that that gives us, our middle magic is our kind of our frontline, the authority, the ability to empowered to know that hey, you know what, I can break that thing and I can tell somebody about it. And it's not gonna be the end of the world, you know, they're going to work with me, and I'm going to have somebody that supports me in fixing that thing. And trying to figure out you know, what to do with what remains of it. Versus you know, you mentioned having to be in a perfect environment. And so we all know the desktop thing here and I think the world is very okay with it.
Jason Davis 19:35
Yeah, yeah, I heard somebody giving a speech one time and they talked about how on their team, they celebrate the screw up of the week. It was more expletive than that than in their description here, but they celebrate that it's like a badge of honor that they wear within their team. And that's something like I said, it just starts to become part of your culture. And then you know, you can walk onto that team without anybody even telling you that mistakes and failures are accepted. And you get a very clear answer.
Justin Eggar 20:05
No, no, that's great, you know, and I, we, we should all probably do a lot more of that. And, you know, there are so many fun things that you can do with team members and ways that you can try and build out your culture. And, you know, we put a lot of thought into how to be intentional with culture. We don't do that, but, you know, I, I can't wrap my head around that we just might,
Jason Davis 20:25
yeah, maybe find a way. All right. So thinking again, about managers, what are most managers missing, when it comes to failure and risk,
Justin Eggar 20:37
you know, I think that the managers get stuck on the fear components of this thing, you know, be there, the negative outcome of it can be turned into such a large mountain in their minds, that, that they're just afraid of taking a risk. And so you know, even in work environments, where you have a great man, a great leader, you know, that that would be accepting of this stuff, our own, you know, level of, of being self-critical, you know, we, which we all have, since we all live in the perfect world of Instagram, and whatever else, you know, we're all relatively self-critical. Um, you know, but I think that that, they don't understand that, that, you know, risk and breaking things, is, in most cases, just this thing, you know, what I mean, it's, it's a small thing, typically, the thing that, that, you know, can be fixed frequently is the thing that, you know, so don't, don't treat it, like it's this thing that that you have to carve out, and you can't have them and you can't have discussions with and, you know, so I'd say that, that being more open to it yourself, you know, if you're listening to this, don't expect your leader to come to you and say, Hey, you know, what, go bring some stuff for me. You know, that'd be great. I'd love it if that happened, right? Yeah, but, but be the one that's willing to drive that conversation and start pushing and breaking things a little bit, and maybe just make sure you communicate along the way that, you know, this is, this is the reason that we're doing that, you know, and I'm trying to achieve something bigger and greater, and I'm trying to innovate, you know, and hopefully, they're supportive of that. And if they're not, you know, that's, that's probably a different podcast.
Jason Davis 22:15
Yeah. Yeah. And to me, I think a lot of times, you know, it comes down to just making decisions, right, and, and, you know, kind of getting back to being afraid to make a decision or being, you know, having that fear of not doing the right thing, you know, I would see this a lot, you know, especially from a call center standpoint, you know, and really kind of thinking about, like call center leaders and managers and, you know, just getting them to make a decision without having to go and get, you know, authority from somebody else. It's like, Hey, you got a customer on the line right now, and they need help in some way, right? Like, let's move on this rather than making sure you've got the absolute right answer, make a call an educated call, hopefully, you can work through that, and that you can defend, you can sign up again. So
Justin Eggar 22:59
we know that that ties back into decision making and how much data do you need to make a good decisions. And, you know, and some people can, can make pretty good decisions with less data. And, and some people, they're really trying to get that data level to 100%, you know, and that almost never happens. And so, you know, especially, you know, in going back to being a startup, we're constantly trying to figure out, you know, how much data do we actually need to make a good decision on this thing. And so as you're looking at risk, as you're looking at making decisions, there's a lot of value add and being able to pivot quickly and, and make decisions like they, you know, on the spot, or, you know, whatever else, you'd have to make sure that you're comfortable with the amount of data that you have to make that decision. If you're at 100%, that's probably a little too much to back from that, if you're making decisions with 50% that that might also be too low. And so some happy medium is probably a good place.
Jason Davis 23:53
Yeah, exactly. So and you touched on probably a couple of points throughout the conversation, but is there What are you doing at quantum to really encourage taking risks and failures or anything that you're kind of specifically calling out or acting on to promote that behavior?
Justin Eggar 24:12
You know, I think speaking about it, you know, is one of those things being open and transparent about it? So, so us, you know, showcasing our failures at the top, you know, we're not, I'm not getting the tattoo, but I'm certain you know, having the conversation of you know, this is what went wrong this is why it went wrong, you know, let's do this. This was just an example of how I make my mistakes. And you know, what, what, what this means, and, you know, also I think when people make mistakes going through and having conversations about what that means, and like, you know, not only getting through it but also you know, don't go back and stress out about this thing. I don't want you staying up until 3 am at night I mean no because you're so you know, focused on this area that you've had and so, you know, really, a lot of our focus is culturally having conversations and Be being open with it. You know, we all read a book called radical candor, a little while back, and you've probably read it at some point, I'm good, a good book, you know, certainly worth a read if you have a young fresh team, or if you have a lot of people miss out on how they communicate effectively, and it's either too harsh or, or it's not having the conversations that they need to have to be impactful. You know, and so, so we tried to have radical candor in our organization with, hey, you know, this is the risks that we face, these are things that are gonna break, and we're okay with these things. And, you know, not not, not protecting people more than we need to, with that thing, so that we can have real conversations, and they can, and they can also understand, you know, all the learning points along the way. So, you know, US internally, having radical candor, I think, is good. And, by the way, my team tells me that I'm wrong. And I love that, you know, and so, it'll be funny, because we'll be in a meeting, and somebody will, you know, somebody will, will push back on me and say this thing, and I said, Well, I hope you have data for me on what you're saying, you know, but I, you know, I am human, I fail all the time. And so, you know, there are many times where somebody will, will pull out the data and show me that I'm wrong. And I'm like, you know, that's awesome. Like, you know, we're all better for this thing. And so, you know, I think I think being open to having radical candor and communication across the organization, is pivotal in embracing risk and embracing failure as a positive thing.
Jason Davis 26:29
Yeah, I love that a lot. And just, I've not read the book, I'm familiar with it, but I'll definitely hop
Justin Eggar 26:36
over there. So
Jason Davis 26:40
but I think, you know, and tell me if I'm wrong here, but you know, aside from, you know, kind of creating an environment of risk and failure and acceptance of that, I, I feel like that also opens up more avenues for feedback from one level to the next, and you spoke to it a little bit, right, your team tells you, you're wrong, often they're or shows you when you're wrong. But I think it kind of makes that feedback mechanism, or just the approach a little bit easier knowing that, Okay, everybody is understanding that. Not everything we do around here is perfect. And we hope that people tell us when something's broken, if we don't see it, you know, or something's not working, right. Anyway. So are you seeing that? Are you feeling that? Or am I off there?
Justin Eggar 27:20
You know, and so Jason, we, I assume that anything I do is, is at best, 60 to 70% effective, right? And so, you know, when, when you mentioned doing things in a perfect capacity, I don't believe that we're doing one thing perfectly, right, you know, much less all of them. And so, you know, when we're okay with knowing that, that we're operating at a certain level, and that, that if what I'm doing is 70% I'm looking for that next thing that can get me to 71% or 70%, to 72%. But when you already assume that what you're doing is imperfect, it takes away the stigma of what you're doing, being imperfect. So you know, I as fundamental mention that because it's uh, yeah, I think that drives a lot of, you know, kind of, you know, who we are and how we embrace risk is that we know that we're imperfect and that, and that's, you know, fully okay. So anyway, yeah, I speaking of those rabbit trails,
Jason Davis 28:19
definitely, no, I appreciate you adding that in, I think that's a great connection and a great way to wrap that piece of it up. So are what are two or three things that you think managers should take away from this conversation?
Justin Eggar 28:32
Yeah, so don't be afraid of failing, you know, failure. 99.999% of the time is, is not, you know, finite, it's not, it's not going to define who you are for the rest of your life. And so, so first of all, be okay with the fact that you're going to fail, and don't figure out how to not fail, figure out how to fail positively fail forward, if I can steal that from everybody else using it, you know, so, you know, your failures don't define who you are, they, they purely define something that happened at some point in time and who you are tomorrow and the thing that you're doing tomorrow and your performance, personally and professionally, tomorrow, cannon will be better and so you know, be okay with failing. Because it says that at least you're doing something that's hard, at least you're doing something that that is taking a lot out of you because you know you're giving your best and if you come short, that's okay, you know what I mean? grow from that thing. And so likewise, be open to communicating about it. And so if you're okay with failing, you need to be okay with making sure that you're communicating what's going on and raise the flag if you need to, and say, Hey, this thing happened or I broke this thing or, or I need your help. And I was just having a conversation the other day with one of our leaders and I was saying, Hey, listen, I don't mind this thing broken on mine that you failed, I said, I wish you would have told me a little more quickly. Then you did, because then I could have come in and supported you, I could have come in and helped and you know, and don't, don't hide this stuff, you know, don't don't keep this all on your shoulders because, you know you're losing sleep over something that that, you know, just used to be a conversation between us and then I can step in and assist you so it's okay to break things but make sure you're communicating that and that so that way there are no surprises, it's the surprises, I think that will hurt your career the most. So, you know, if you're open and you're communicating, and you're getting feedback, and you're getting mentors, and you're, you're pulling in what you can so that you can fail intelligently. Then when you when that does happen, and people are aware of the risk if people are aware of what's going on. leaders don't like to be blindsided, right and so the risk isn't bad. Failure isn't bad. Being blindsided by something is bad and if you're going to be more aggressive in your approach to stuff which is cool we know what you're talking about here then also be more aggressive in your communication have radical candor with with your leader and be open and honest to that feedback and have a really good you know, kind of communication with that and then the last thing is you know, remember that we're human I'm human if you want to send me a message on Facebook on LinkedIn and tell me I messed up on this I did you know there's there's probably things I could have said you know better in this podcast you know, we're all human being be okay with being a human being yourself, be okay with your teams being a human being be okay with your leader being a human being and in that environment, it's just such a it's such a you know, if we're going to spend as much time as we do in the workplace, you know, Jason Let's be good to others that are in that workplace with us and if everybody's doing that, it's going to create a place that we love and a place that we can embrace in a place that we're happy to do really hard things out for for a long time. And so I think that's the last thing is we're human and be okay with that.
Jason Davis 31:53
Yeah, I love that and you know, you spoke about not hiding it It reminded me of you know, many many years ago I used to have this problem where I would break our family computer a lot but I found ways to fix it before anybody ever found out and I never told anybody and then one day when they're yeah yeah it's like oh nothing ever happened and then one day I had to change out a card and I just started like taking the computer apart and my mom's like, how do you know how to do that? You have a whole conversation I like wow you know but then again it you know, it's like well Why didn't you tell me you'd like these things you know I mean, you know, I could have supported you know, it's a whole other conversation and like I had no idea that you were interested in fixing computers and stuff like that and you know, that was an early age thing but again, you know, back to your point of just communicating about it you know, especially if you found a way to solve that problem as well that works I think are like hey, I ran into this I tried this and this is what happened you know, as long as that's been you know, good from a compliance standpoint then we're okay you know, but it's a good way to say hey, well what can we learn from that? And if we run into that again, is this a repeatable process or activity that we can kind of go through that's a good way to get there so
Justin Eggar 33:10
well, when you think about career growth you know just kind of your tie direct correlation say you conversations with your mother about your hacking skills you know, when when you are having those conversations and you're doing stuff and you know you're being upfront on that stuff. I think that that it's also putting your team members in a place where you are better online to help them grow in their careers right and so you know, when they're coming to you and saying hey, I'm you know, we have really open dialogue now we're open to failure and hey, you know, that that level of relationship and communication is gonna be beneficial for them. It's also it'll also be beneficial for you not only with them but also you know, if you're pushing that up the line as well. And so I you know, it was funny, just, you know, hearing you know, breaking the computer and putting it back together, and kind of, you know, the Genesis that kind of occurred with that, and as you were learning stuff, we're no different than that in the workplace. You know, we're all fancy mature adults now but we're not that that much different. We're breaking stuff. And you know, you're going to come across employees that love reporting and love data analysis and love all this different stuff. And, you know, if you're helping them, have good conversations with you, and break a few things along the way, it's going to result in the meaningful workplace where your team members are also hopefully growing along the way and getting the best out of the workplace that you're creating for them.
Jason Davis 34:29
Excellent point. Great edition there. Appreciate that. All right. Well, let's wrap this thing up a little bit here. So Justin, let's talk a little bit about quantum. What's the vision? Why does it exist?
Justin Eggar 34:41
Yeah, absolutely. So you know, if you've been on social media, you've probably seen that our mission of quantum assurance is to democratize insurance and I'm kind of a political you know, I just I'm here for people. You know, but I do think and I've been in insurance for a while now. I think of quantum In some ways is my penance and fixing the things that are broken in insurance, right? And there's so much you know, so you know, you've been in the field, some of your listeners haven't been but you know, the fact there's so many insure Tech's right now trying to fix broken things, and insurance kind of showcases how much stuff was broken, that we were all covering up or not, not, like maliciously, but just, you know, it wasn't our business model to focus on those things along the way. So quantum assurance, we chose democratizing insurance because we know that there are a million things and you know, I joke with people that this is probably the hole that I'm going to die on, but just putting our finger on one thing at a time and, and trying to improve that thing. And, you know, insurance is, is a beautiful world where, you know, when you have an accident or somebody passes away, that's horrible. But the thing that we can do at that moment, if we do it, well, we're actually helping people and we're doing good in the world as a, as a, as a, as an industry and, and then often gets lost in translation with kind of, you know, kind of the commoditization has occurred, and so on. So, right now, one of our major focuses is on the distribution aspect of insurance. And so we're broken down into three different channels, we have kind of a direct to consumer channel, we have our own agency channel, and then we have our digital distribution channel that is that, you know, help clients embrace digital forward and figure out ways to better meet their needs and reduce friction in that thing, so but we're heavily distribution based as a philosophy, because there are so many things broken in each of those areas, right. And so from the direct consumer quality of that side, and the relationship that clients often miss is dramatically broken. And so we put a lot of resources into education and changing the dynamic of that relationship as it exists in the direct consumer model. And then on the agency side, I thought that the agency model that exists with captive and independent organizations is massively faulty, and there's a lot of stuff that occurs on that side that I believe is wrong. And so that's really, you know, I built our model on that side, to protect the agencies and say, you know, what, you're still relevant you need people that come in and help you be future-forward, and figure out how to how to change your business model from you know, going out and, you know, doing stuff that my grandfather was doing 50 years ago, into what's going to be relevant news, what's going to keep you relevant for the next 10 2050 years, you know, and 100 years from now we're all going to be in a different you know, situation and so I don't know if I can fix you know, all things in regards to it, but fixing the contracts, fixing the model, fixing the way that agents operate and are educated and, and you know, that they're their company pouring into them, to help them be the best they can be. I'm passionate about that, you know, partially because that was my own experience, you know, what I mean? figuring out how to start my own business, and, you know, build it from the ground up was something that I had to experience and all the hardship along with it, and that's helping agents be more effective at that thing is near and dear to who we are. And then digitally, obviously, you know, the kind of the last channel, how do we acquire clients, digitally online and, and help them make really good decisions with their insurance? And how are we really helping them embrace insurance and not view it as just a negative in their life, but viewed as something that they did right can be positive for them in many respects? And so we're, we're tackling a lot of those things. And the last thing on top of that is then the brand of insurance, right? So So, you know, back in the days of cavemen, when they first came on the scenes and things are starting to commoditize insurance. Along the way, insurance companies started to play in this lowbrow kind of communication and marketing about who they were. But they lost the story along the way of this horrible thing that happened and we have put them together where we protected you where we made it better for you as much as we could, you know, you really had somebody there to support you in that thing. And so our work is also on the brand and the image of insurance and how do we improve the relationship that we have with consumers so that they feel like we are here for them and trying to be a value add for them? And we lose some of the contracts that the confrontational us versus them feel that the insurance landscape is kind of built over the years?
Jason Davis 39:28
Yeah, it's great. And I think you know, the way that you describe that a little bit I think it really attaches back to our topic here really well, he just thinking about this sense of, you know, that that captive or independent agent audience and the fact that you know, you're seeing that there's something still there that people still need to some degree, right, yeah. It's, you know, it's obvious that some, some companies are kind of moving away from that, but you are willing to take a risk and say, Hey, I'm going to specialize in this area, and we're going to focus on people that need that level of support, and kind of staying there. And and, you know, I guess figuring out how to play with some of the bigger companies and things like that and some of the other space, but I think that just that that alternative approach or different approach to how you're going to kind of come to market is huge. Really?
Justin Eggar 40:20
Yeah. Well, keep in mind that, that the companies that have said to agents are not as relevant as they used to be, they're putting they're pointing at the box that they created for agencies, right? That box that they don't like, is one that they actually created along the way, well, you know, whichever company is, or whichever channel it is, you know, independent or captive, when an organization looks back at the agent says, We don't like this thing, what they really mean is they don't like the box, that thing exists, right. And so what I would say is, is that they are right, that that box is antiquated, that box, that box was irrelevant A long time ago, but the distribution the working with somebody, them having to be an independent contractor, and, and you guys having a good relationship, that thing doesn't have to, you know, you can change that model, you're willing to change that model, you have to be willing to work with those groups to adapt what they're doing. And instead of saying that this is our stagnant view of a relationship, I think instead, you know, looking at and saying, Okay, well, the relationship has changed a little bit, the dynamic of what we're doing has changed a little bit, but how do we, how do we help them get there with us and value them as human beings? How do we, you know, how do we make the most of this thing? Right? So do I think that insurance agents are going to be sitting in their office and selling insurance on the phone? In 50 years? I don't, you know, for one, the government's gonna outlaw and, you know, any, any phone communication businesses by then. So I don't think that that thing is going to exist, but But what happens if we change the model? And instead, you know, there's, there's an app that the agents are now selling? And they're doing b2b? You know, or, or how can we so, you know, if we, if we view it from the lens of humans are important, and the idea of independent contractors and businesses across our nation and, and, you know, kind of the holistic, beneficial view of small business, if we believe in that thing? How do we work with this group of people to maximize what they're doing and what we're, what we're doing together with them so that we can both benefit? And so I don't, I don't think the model is not going to change has changed, and it should change. But I do think that there's still a massive value-added and hundreds of 1000s of incredible people. And if we as an industry can figure out how to make them a part of the future, I think that they will embrace that thing, you know, and so our agency model will not be stagnant and 50 years, we're not gonna be looking back and having the same conversation. But along the way, if I do my job, right, will have created a pathway for them to adapt along the way and still do great things alongside us. So
Jason Davis 42:55
yeah, that's great. I love that. Thanks for adding that in. So all right, well, Justin, let's get into Final Thoughts plugs, where can people find you if they have questions?
Justin Eggar 43:04
Yes, well, thank you. I'm on LinkedIn, Justin, EGGAR Feel free to connect with me I you know, I love having a lot of great connections. And you'll see I often referenced by my LinkedIn family, you know, we all spend a lot of time together and, and so please do connect. Quantum assurance is that quantum assurance calm and maybe Jason we can throw that in in one of the links somewhere and I put off to spell it out right now. I got it. But But yeah, you know, and if you guys have you know, feedback or or need anything, you know, we're always happy to help and, you know, that's what we're here for.
Jason Davis 43:43
All right, and you're hiring to right?
Justin Eggar 43:45
we are hiring and so if you are in pretty much any position from frontline to CFO to in data, you know, allow analysis where we're hiring for a ton of different positions, and we have a great team, you know, you'll you'll find that, you know, first and foremost we're looking to build our our company's culture as the culture we want to be a part of and enjoy every day. And then and then layering on top of that, you know, we're going to create a difference along the way. And so, if that's meaningful, I'd love to have a conversation. You know, please please hit me up my email is Justin@quantumassurance.com and feel free to send your resume, send me a note and I'm always happy to connect.
Jason Davis 44:29
Alright, Justin, hey, you've been a fantastic guest today. I really appreciate your insights, thoughts, everything you've been able to share with the audience today. Appreciate your time and hope to talk to you again soon.
Justin Eggar 44:41
Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it.
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